So as we warned you earlier today when we told you about "The Sun's" story about Rob, take it with a grain of salt.
Gossip Cop have once again cleared up the rumours!
Are prostitutes and drug abuse in Robert Pattinson’s future?
Only if you believe a report from The Sun, which claims the “Twilight” star is “lobbying for a leading role which will see him Hoover up more drugs than PETE DOHERTY and AMY WINEHOUSE combined, sleep with scores of prostitutes and get away with a blood-curdling murder.”
According to the paper, Pattinson would like to star in a big-screen adaptation of the novel, “Kill Your Friends,” about a completely depraved record label guy.
“It’s an incredibly adult character and is bound to shock the tweens who account for such a huge part of Rob’s fan base,” says a so-called “source.”
Nevertheless, the source says, “[Pattinson] is fascinated by the music industry and is keen to get involved in the project… He’s already approached producers telling them he wants to play the leading man.”
Really?
No.
A source close to Pattinson tells Gossip Cop there has “not even [been] a passing conversation” about the actor starring in “Kill Your Friends.”
Story “killed.”
Thanks to Crystal for the tip!
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58 comments:
why do the sun always making up crap,lord it's stupid is it the sun do not having anything to write? what about truth
Gotta love GC!!!!
I agree with evangeline. Plus I'm glad that Robert seems to be picking meaningful/appealing stories to star in.
He doesn't need a trashy horror fest to star in, yuck!
not true - he "kills" two of my friends. At least they say something along those lines...lol
He tries to kill me everyday AP LOL
Not to worry. I'm sure Rob will grab another good role.
LOL @ Kate he is trying to kill me too he is killing all of us look at that we all like whatever he does ok telling I have never fall for a boy like this before (serious)=))
What made me wonder about this in the first place is that it came from The Sun and that's a tabloid, right? (the language in the article was very tabloidish) and the fact that it said he was going after the roll (contacting producers, etc). It read very much like the story that he was 'going after' the Cobain story. At the moment, Rob doesn't have to 'lobby' for parts. Yes, he can certainly show an interest in something and help to get the ball rolling. But at the moment, Hollywood is lobbying for him.
Also, if this were true (his aggressively going after a role), this kind of article would have been 'planted' by a publicist and as we know, Rob doesn't imploy one. Which is UNHEARD of in Hollywood. Because EVERYONE has a publicist.
But...one day he will take on roles like this because as I said, there is just something in him that is attracted to characters who live on the 'edges' of life. And when he does, he will disappoint those fans who have PROJECTED onto him what they WANT and/or NEED him to be.
Ooooh. That's tricky business with an actor. Especially such a curious one as Rob Pattinson whose looking to challenge himself as one.
Its the sun, nothin is ever true in it, thats why i never buy it,
nikola6, I appreciate your comment a lot. I totally agree. But I'm french so I don't have the right words to tell things the way I would want to. Thank you for doing it ! :-)
Well, for those of us who are slightly obsessive Rob fans, we know this is a book that Rob has read.
(He was seen holding it, I believe in an airport, as identified here on Robsessed).
And for those of us who are REALLY obsessive Rob fans, we have read it.
It's great book. I really enjoyed it. It is NOT a "trashy horrorfest" as an earlier poster said, but is instead a well-written exploration of a killer's creepy mindset.
The book would make a FABULOUS movie, along the lines of American Psycho. And the lead character would be a terrific role for any actor -- perhaps even Oscar worthy, if the film is done well -- but as much as I love the part and adore Rob, I'm not sure he'd be right for the role. I always pictured Ricky Gervais as Steven (the lead role). (And yes, I'm aware Rob said he wants to kiss Ricky - like I said, truly obsessed.)
I'm sure Rob can do "evil." He's perfect as slimeball Georges in Bel Ami, because that character is sly and seductively rotten. Rob's got that quiet seduction down pat, as we all know.
But slimeball Steven from Kill Your Friends isn't sexy or seductive or sly at all. He's a racist, sexist, loud-mouthed, overweight, not-good-looking drunk. It just doesn't seem like a role for Rob.
That said, if it's being made by credible filmmakers, I could see Rob wanting to get on board, maybe in a supporting role. So while Gossip Cop may have been told he isn't talking to anyone about the film, I personally vote that he should at least consider it.
@moonbeam
I'm really obsessive because I've read it too LOL
Maybe this rumor started because Rob mentioned the book somewhere and tabloids twisted it. As usual.
OMG... have any of you read this book? It is one of the most un-pc things I have ever read in my life... and I loved it. It's a great book. For some reason I pictured Ricky Gervais as the main character. <-- dude totally typed this and then saw MoonBeam's comment.
But that's one of the reasons why a role like this would be so appealing to Rob. Because it goes completely against 'type' and 'image'.
Another book he loves? "Money" by Martin Amis (I love it too. it's one of my favorites) with the same kind of protagonist in 'John Self.'
I'm telling you, one day, Rob is going to take on a role like this. A role in which he'll have to bury that gorgeous movie star persona of his; gain the weight, wear a lousy hair cut, be a racist or a mysogynist or a crude, obnoxious slime ball. You watch. He's gonna do it and some of his 'fans' are gonna go 'ewwww' and turn away.
My younger sister is that way. She has her favorite actors, but she will only see their movies if they're playing the romantic lead in which their characters are the good guy and if they look gorgerous in them. She is not interested in their character roles at all. And that's fine. That's her choice. But I can't help but remind her that she's missing so much of their work as actors. She doesn't care about that. She doesn't need them to be actors. She needs them to be her romantic fantasy. Again, nothing wrong with that I guess.
But I'm gonna take a stab here and say, that while he may be interested in this role, I'm gonna guess he'd let this one go by as -I think- the one he really wants is, John Self in "Money."
Just a hunch.
Oh and thank you Carina.
I'm glad if I can help to express what you're thinking.
Another thought...
This is a highly intelligent and extremely artistic creature and if he's not being challenged, then he is...bored!
And for intelligent and artistic people, there is nothing worse than...boredom. Their minds need damn near constant stimulation.
Sometimes not a pleasant thing as it would be nice to turn your brain off for awhile. And when they do get bored?
They can often turn to chemical enhancements. It's true. Go sniff around in the world of artistic, creative personalites and you'll find drunks and drug addicts. For some, they think that the chemicals actually help spark the creativity.
And for some...it does.
I know that some don't want to hear this, but I'm telling you...I know what I'm talking about here. I really do. This is the world I grew up in. It's the world I still live in.
I just left a site that said this was all BS, not true.
nikola-- REALLY intelligent and creative artistic people are never bored as long as in the right situation; we don't have enough time in the day to do all we want, learn what we want, create what we want. It is only when we are in stifling depressing situations, where we cannot learn or create, that we get frustrated, but fo rthe most part, we can zone out in most situations and imagine, scribble down ideas, etc. It is a problem for kids in the classroom or people in regular workforce jobs, and that is where madness, or at least rage, can develop. But if an intelligent artistic person can create space in his life, even if just in the evenings, or weekends, to create, or moreso if he can manimpulate his environment to be able to create, then he will free himself enough to avoid the anger and frustration that is held down as if like a lid on a pressure cooker until the pot just explodes.
This is one very big reason I wish Rob could pace hs projects better, and have a safe space of place and time when he IS working, so that he may create and think and learn. He doesn't really NEED edgy stuff to create, although it is one area he might like to explore. He can be creative and sane enough even without the edgy stuff.
As for needing chemical 'enhancements' and needing constant stimulation--this is actualy not true of all artisitic intelligent people, but true of those who have even minimal neurological misfirings, along the line of ADD, ADHD etc. And the answer is not necessarly to constantly stimulate them or give them meds and drugs, but rather to aid them in intellectual organization so that the thoughts are not scattered and disorganized, and so that the impulses to talk, act, act out, etc, have more appropriate outlets. It is true that some do need meds for this, at least to aid in the impulse control, but longterm help is much better in mental and intellectual organization.
There is a TREMENDOUS number of alcoholics and drug users whose substance abuse is secondary to the central problem of ADD and other minor neurolgical glitches; they resorted to the substances not due to boredom but due to the need to quiet the impulses and disorganized rushing thoughts.
Arthur Rimbaud
Ludwig Von Beethovan
Wolfgang Mozart Amadeus
Tennessee Williams
Ernest Hemmingway
Lord Byron
Percy Shelley
Jim Carroll
Jack Lemmon
Judy Garland
Montgomery Clift
Janis Joplin
Johnny Cash
Kris Kristofferson
Jean Simmons
Vivien Leigh
Gene Tierney
John Belushi
Richard Pryor
George Carlin
Craig Ferguson
David Letterman
Eugene O'Neill
Spencer Tracy
Billie Holiday
Jimi Hendrix
Kelsey Grammer
Jason Robards
John Lennon
Kurt Cobain
Jim Morrison
Amy Winehouse
Carrie Fisher
Robert Downey Jr.
Bing Crosby
Vincent Van Gogh
I don't know how many names I just typed there, but it didn't take me more than ten minutes. And I could sit here and type for three days and still not name them all.
All artistic, creative and intelligent creatures (some more so than others).
All drug addicts and/or drunks.
Some even went mad.
Maybe it wasn't the creative spark at all. Maybe it was just the fame.
But if so, then why haven't all the famous people (the non creative, artistic types; world leaders, athletes) gone off the rails?
And no, not all artistic, creative people turn to chemicals or go mad. But ALOT of them do.
There is a corelation here Solas.
It's documented.
You can look it up.
Nk--read what I said above again, please. I am not denying that many do turn to chemicals and many go mad, with or wthout the substances. But an awful lot do not. One CAN be atristic, creative, intelligent, even brilliant, without any of that.
If there were a significant corelation, then 1- every artistic soul, every brilliant soul, would be abusing substances and/or going mad, and 2- there would be no other possible explanatons for the substance abuse and/or madness. This has been studied in depth for quite a while now, trying to ascertain the relationship between intelligence and madness, etc, and it isn't that brilliance or artistic ability MUST be accompanied by madness or abuse, but that a-the isolation and frustration of other people not understanding, or of not having the chance to create because of real life demands, can drive a person mad, and/or b- neurolgical glitches often (not always) accompany/ are in brilliant minds. So many cases are documented either way-- those who go mad and/or abuse substances and those who don't, that it is obvious it is not the brilliance and creativity that does it, but something else. And that sometheing else, it is increasingly clear through clinical and biological observation, is neurogolligical glitch, often ADD, ADHD, and other seemingly harmless conditions.
Please reread what i wrote. I would love to talk in length about this with you;I am passionate about this area of my work, seeing highly intelligent children develop secondary problems due to the isolation and frsutration. I realize that you may know a lot about the industry, but I know a LOT about this particular area of human behaviour (or misbehaviour).
Please know Solas that I'm not disrespecting your views or opinions on this. In fact, I have a very high regard for them. You are after all, the doctor.
But I'm thinking that you're coming from a more clincal approach whereas, I'm just speaking
from having been around these types of personalities all of my life. I've watched the behavior, the patterns over and over. I was born of two of them and I'm one myself.
Perhaps what it is, is creative, artistic types (not all, but a great many) are damaged in some way to begin with and it's the damage that leads to addiction and/or madness. But I cannot buy into that completely because I've just seen too much. I believe that artistic people (which is different from the merely talented. Talented people INTERPRET the art. Artistic people CREATE it) operate on a different plane than most. Not better. Different. The prisim through which they view themselves and the world around them is different than your average Jane and Joe. They see 'more'. They feel 'more.'
They feel 'deeper' I think because they are the such highly sensitive creatures and you have to have heightened sensitivity in order to create art.
And yeah, I do believe that Rob is one of the highly intelligent, artistic, creative, sensitive creatures who looks at the world through that difficult to describe and understand prisim and that he could most definitely fall prey one day. And his drinking just might be the first symptom of it.
Anyway. I'm rambling here. I'd love to talk about this too, but I'm afraid of putting another e-mail back up after what happened. And I won't apologize for derailing this thread because it's dead. It's just you and me talking here.
I hope I made some sense.
Hoping this is really just for limited viewing right now!- You have made sense, but there is so much more to it than that! A holiday is coming this evening so I won't be online for a few days; it is a pity you do not do email although I udnerstand that nasty people can louse up our computers via email.
I will tell you this much: I am an artistic person. I create artwork (called micrography; you can see some of it at holyart18.com); I write and have had stories published, have 2 novels I hope to publish, and wrote several children's books, some in the process of publication now, and one won an award for children's literature from writer's digest. I write and sing my own songs; havent in public for many years but used to sing in coffeehouses and on radio at university back in the day; I hope to get my songs online via utube or soemthing, possibly msypace, so you can hear them there. I have designed my own clothing for years, make them, and often embellish them with my own embroidery. So yeah, I know about being creative, artistic, original. But thank G_d, I neither abuse substances, nor people. i AM fairly reclusive, and partly it is from being called strange my whole life, partly from seeing the world differently.
The phenomenon whch I was tryng to explain though is neuroligical, and it is seen over and over that those brilliant and/or creative souls who end up abusng substances have a neurolgical misfuncton (we used to call it, before the days of being poliitcally correct, 'minimal brain dysfunction'). ADD/ADHD is the most coommon. The biological reality of real ADD is lack of, or lower levels of, dopamine in the brain, which means the natural inhibitors and 'quieters' and organizers in the brain are absent or compromised. Think of input from the senses and ideas and thoughts as an onslought of ocean water flooding everything in its path because the damns or levees dont work, and how it just keeps rushing overwhelming everythng in its path. A person who does not have ADD (or other neruoligical malfunctions) will have paths or canals dug, or huge pipes like lanes on a highway, for that water so it flows calmly into separate areas and doesnt dstroy along the way, and so the water is navigable and manageable. People without those mechanisms are just so overwhelmed, the thoughts are discombobulated; thoughts and ideas just come rushing out all over with no apparent path for them or control over them. The logical thing, esp when teens discover alcohol and/or drugs, is to numb or drug the brain, becasue it calms things down. It might not organize the thoughts, but it makes the furious rushing of the ocean waters of thougths and ideas calm down and it diminishes the onslought of sensory input.
Again, becasue there exist enough artistic people and brilliant people who do NOT need to abuse substances iin order to function, the need and use of substances is not guaranteed or necessary for all.
I do think fame and fortune and environment contribute; it takes a strong person to not get into what everyone else is doing, and almost eveyrone in the entertainment field alone is abusng something.
I do worry about Rob's use of alcohol; i do think it calms things down (same as the blasted cigarettes due to the nicotine). Yet, I think Rob has so much going for himself right now, thank G-d, that will save him. Creating a space away from the onslought, and findng different venues and avenues to create in different ways, give him a control and paths that many artists don't have. I do wonder if he has any neurological challenges; if so, it leaves more of a likelihood, if he cannot always control his time and space, for increaed use of alcohol to calm or numb. I am sure he has some minor physical challenges, but he thank G-d he is doing fine so far, and I think he is aware of some limitations.
Oh. What you said there made so much sense about the way the brain works. The way you described it was so visually clear, that I could actually see it. Thank you for that.
And again, I agree that not all artistic, creative types do or have to go off the rails, because if that were true, they'd all be dope fiends and mad as hatters. And they're not. But maybe it's even more than the artistic or creative spark. Maybe what I'm really talking about is the genius realm and we all know that there's a very fine line between genius and madness. And to be honest.
Not every name on that list would I quality as necessarily a great artistic or creative type. Some were merely talented and yeah, a few of them were geniuses.
But as you said, those who are born with those mechanisims to cope, do just fine. But Solas, so many true artists and creative personalities do not have those capabilities. I know you've heard the expression, 'tortured artist'. And my god, some of them are and it's heartbreaking to watch them unravel. I wonder. Do you suppose that those lacking those capabilities, that having that deficency, that it has anything to do with the fostering of the creative spark in the first place? Or is it just some kind of coincidence?
If so, I think that would go against my own spiritual beliefs as I believe we have lived many lifetimes (here? somewhere else? I don't know) and some have lived more and that this is where we get the concept of the old soul. And I believe that we are going through yet another life experience here with many more yet to come. To me the idea that this life is all there is, is preposterous. If so, then what's the point of it all, if when this life ends, it ALL ends? And so, I believe that we bring many things with us from these previous lives and that each lifetime is one more step in our progression. To where? I do not know. I also believe that we bring our gifts with us and that if given the opportunity we can develop them even further. In a nutshell, I believe that were born with our artistry, our creativity, our genius in place and that whatever brain dysfunction were also born with, can certainly affect how we express ourselves and in whether or not we'll lose our sanity in trying to do so. But I don't believe that the dysfunction is a part of the creativity. I believe these are two seperate apples falling off of two seperate trees. I think it is coincidence but then what I'm curious about is, why then are there so many coincidences with creativity and this lack of coping skills? But one last thing about this idea that we bring it all with us from somewhere.
Mozart.
He began composing at three. At three, most of us are learning to eat with utensils and wipe our own bums. But he had already begun. He had to have brought that with him from wherever it is he came from.
If there's another plausible explanation, I'm all ears.
And I think I need another post.
(yeah. I need another post like I need a another hole in the head. LOL)
Nik--if you have read my posts since i first started comin ghere last August, you will know I too, beleive and feel very very strongly that our souls can come back again and again. In fact, one of the novels I have written and am presently trying to get into comprehendable English is about an old soul who comes back again and again, for a reason, but volunteers this time around for something specfic that needs to be done. I beleive there are propensities, leanings, in a soul that are a constant, but whether they are revealed or realized in a lifetime depends on other factors. You can have a brilliant mind trapped in a handicapped body that is very limited as to what it can do, invent, express (like hawkings). I believe very strongly that in each lifetime are challenges and tests, where we have the choice of dong right or not right, and sometimes the challenges and obstacles are terribly steep and difficult. I think biological limitations are also in the set of challenges. It would be much easier for aperson to choose right, or to create and invent, if the person has no challenges. But to do it anyway-- like geroge washington carver, like beethoven after he was deaf already, like hawkings, etc (although think how limited he would be in an earlier lifetime without the mechanical devices that he has for communicating!)--to create or invent anyway, despite challenges, is brilliance shining forth dark and murky waters.
There are reasons why many brillaint and/or artistic souls also have bolgical limitations such as neurological dysfunction and mental illness, although some mental illness is secondary--meaing, the person was not born with it but it develped as result of a primary challenge, such as brilliance that the person could not cope with.
The coping is helped along by parenting and teachers./ Think of einstein's teachers who thought he was retarted and suggested he be shut away in an insttution, but his mother worked with him, had patience. Mozart was already trained with music; I believe his father was a musician== so he heard it most likely when in utero and certainly as an infant when he was born, and dependnig on how his parents dealt with his tendencies, he could have developed as a prodigy or not.
as for your excellent question: 'why then are there so many coincidences with creativity and this lack of coping skills?'--- There are several aspects to this.
Some chldren are so overwhelmed emotionally within themsleves with the creativity, with the different way of viewing the world, that especially when they don't have adquate langauge or media to express, they cannot handle the deluge even if they have no neurolgical dysfunction. Add to that parents and/or teachers who do not understand them, who do not tolerate differnces, who force square pegs into a round hole, or who are even benign but don;t have the tools themsleves to consciously recognize let alone handle a special child, and you can see where early on the thoughts and/or ideas of a brilliant and./or artistic creatve child become nebulous, or entropy. CHildren need to have their creativity channelled and structured, but the wrong structure, especially oppressive structure, will not help them and will leave them stifled, contributing to possible mental illness and later dependency.
Another aspect to consider is the biology of the brain itself, and to realize not only how sensitive a baby in utero is to environment, but also that outside the womb envromnet affects the brain, I jsut yesterday viewed a probem on the effects cellphone use has on the brain, and it showed adult and chidlren;s brains exposed to cellphone radiation. As shoudld beexpected, the child's brain was far more effected. Think of all the electric devices we have now that emit radiation, even on unborn children--their mothers in front of computer for so many hours, using cellphones, watching tv, usng microwaaves. It is mind boggling. of course, this does not explain the problems geniuses and artists had in earlier times.
Chldren with ADD/ADHD have a much higher incidence than the genearl population to have biologically based mental illness. This could mean that the increased activity and energy in the brain CAN affect multiple areas of the brain, not just one. As to why it does not affect all, different views--the spiritual== different challenges for dfferent souls; biological-- each brain activity point, like a sunspot or sunstorm, emits activity energy at a specfic time, and depnding on that time and what else is going on, other areas of the brain wil be stimulated and affected. So some brain'storms' might affect the dopamine production; another might affect other coping mechanisms, etc; social- how a parent and/or teacher handles the needs of the child's brain creativity; environmental-- outside forces affecting the brain after birth.
BTW-- at age 3, my 2 older chldren and I each were reading 2 languages (with 2 totally different alphabet/alephbet letters). At age 4, i figured out a way to create pointilistic type artwork by dripping paint onto paper to form actual pictures. My older daughter, at age 4, had figured out major aspects of animal psychology, doing pavlovian type exerimetns and observations without ever hearing of or reading about pavlov or any psychology.
One of the reasons I am in the field I am (this one; religion is my other field) is because I saw that there were chldren who had real artistic creativity, orignality, beyond talent, and some actualy brilliant, who were totally misudnerstood, underappreciated, and often handles incorrectly to their detriment by parents and teachers, and I wanted to help them to develop properly and flourish.
Solas, thanks for sticking here with me on this. My insecurities are flaring because I'm trying to hold my own in a conversation with a doctor and an obviously, highly intelligent person. And I'm no dummy myself, but I'm just trying to keep my head above water here and not come off sounding like an idiot. Which I can be without much effort. LOL!
And of course, all of this is leading me back to Rob because he is the reason I'm here in the first place.
As I said, I do believe he is one of those 'types' I've been talking about here. So am I and I recognize my own and I have from the beginning with him. Yes, he's gorgeous and yes, I can play the silly fangirl and I do enjoy it because let's face it, it is fun and I do like my fun. But that's not why I'm here writing about him. It's that mind of his. The way it works and the ways in which he expresses himself; yes, the quirky, off kiltered sense of humor but even more so, the deep, soulfulness expression of his thougths and ideas. As young as he is, I find him to be one of the most fascinating people I've ever encountered. Which in and of itself, is fascinating (or more likely, bewildering). Because while I do adore young people and so enjoy their company, I cannot say that I find them fascinating simply because they haven't lived long enough to become so. But he is.
Although, I do wonder just how young he really is. Yes, he has just entered his 25th year of life in this go round and I've got more than a few on him. But I have to wonder just how many go rounds he's actually had. I'm an old soul myself, but in terms of soul age, I suspect he is much older than I am. He knows things at 24 that at the same age, I didn't have an inkling of.
(I'm rambling here. Focus Nik. Focus. See. This is my crazy brain whose pistons are firing -or misfiring- in several directions at once. I'm wanting to write about one thing, but find myself veering off all the while thinking I need to get back on topic AND thinking what it is I want to say once I get back on topic yet continuing to ramble on about that which was never my intent in the first place. And I believe Jenny Lumet described the same of Rob with his brain -or thought processes- all over the place, even manifesting it with his darting eyes during that Details interview. And crap, I'm gonna need another post soon).
So getting to back to my belief that I do believe Rob to be of the 'type' I've been talking about here. And truthfully, it's not because he's produced this volume of great creativity yet. Yes, he has created some characters on screen and without benefit of formal training, he's done a remarkable job with them. Look at Art in How To Be, Dali in Little Ashes and Edward in Twilight; three completely diverse characterizations who don't even look like one another. He just naturally has the ability to inhabit the skin of imagined creatures. And yes, I've heard just a bit of the music and poetry he's created (I think of song lyrics as poetry set to music) and again, for someone so young, the depth of some of it is remarkable. And that voice? That deep, mournful, agonized sound that he can come up with? Amazing.
Next post.
Not leaving Solas. Just taking a little break. My great auntie wants me to have a cigrette with her out on the patio and anytime she wants to go outside to smoke, I jump at it. I absolutely hate cigarette smoke in the house. Yes, she's 83, smokes like a chimney and is healthy as a horse. Go figure. But I want to finish reading your posts and to finish mine about Rob.
Be back in a bit and I won't be too long 'cause I'm not sure of our time difference and I know you said that a holiday is coming up and your time here today is somewhat limited.
I'll smoke fast. Don't spank me.
Oh, go ahead. I deserve it.
ITA agree about Rob. have expresed before why I am here, why I am a fain; I have no desire for him physically, sexually, etc, and although he does tug at my motherheart, it isn't that. It s that I am fascnated with himj, I find him to be quite intrigung. I do think there is an old soul there, although he is still wrestling with adolescnece/post adolescence in this time and place. But I find his way of looking at and coping to be way beyond his years, and I would love to discover and bottle, to help others, whatever it is that has enabled him to cope so far and make the observations and decisions he has. He is not the only one; I know I did similarly although made some stupid choices (one of my famous ayngs about myself is, I am a realy bright person who makes really big mistakes--or stupid decisions)and one of my ways of coping over time was to either shut myslef off from others, or to find similar (not clone) people-- kind of like a galt's gulch, I think that is one reason I loved Atlas Shrugged when i first read it at age 15--I don;t agree with all of her propaganda and politics, but I sure as heck wanted to a map to and reservation in galt's gulch and hoped fervently they had kosher food there!
But Rob is coping with way more than I did; I escaped fame several times, and even if I had chosen that path, as girl, even as pretty girl, no one would have screamed over me (boys dont scream over girls the way girls== at least some girls--- scream over boys). I thnk part of it is as I suggested above, parenting, but not all. I think his parents made some mistakes along the way along with some terrific decisions and ideas. and Rob overcame the mistakes and benefitted from the strengths.
BTW-- I don't find you rambling now, and when you do ramble in other posts, I can follow you because I am used to students and patients who do this. were you ever evaluated for ADD?
And I think part of Rob's abilty to take on and wear the soul of such diverse characters is because he is introspective and has had plenty of time to think, without the nonsense of a lot of adolescent stuff that normal kids might do, and because he is intelligent enough to understand the underpinnings of character, the motivations, etc.
The holiday starts at about 8:55 NJ time, but I will shut off electrical stuff before then. So while you smoke (ugh!!!) I will shower and get other thigns ready for the holiday, and will then check back to see if you ahve responded.
sorry--holiday starts 7:50 here in NJ. I was looking at the ending time Thursday nght; it is a 2-day religious holiday.
So I will look here now and then until it approaches that time.
As for insecurities-- have met many brilliant people with no degrees and far too many degreed people with no brains, no social skills, etc. You are intelligent, you have skills and expereince to contribute to a meaningful conversation; dont worry about the degrees or titles.
ok--i am signing off. If you decdie to do email, I am at: solas18@aol.com. I won;t be reading any email or comments until Thursday after 9 pm at the earliest. Was good discussing with you.
I'm sorry. It's past 4:30, meaning you're gone. When you come back in a few days, I'll direct you back here if you want. And thank you so much for today. I've really enjoyed this.
Now while I've voiced some concerns over Rob and the pitfalls he could be susceptible to, I also think he has something very important in his favor in dealing with all of this; the family and environment into which he was born.
From all appearances, it looks like it was a pretty good one. And I'm going to guess with being their baby and only son, that child has never known a day in his life when he didn't know that he was loved and wanted. And if that don't go a long way in turning out an emotionally healthy human being, I don't know what does.
And even though I tend to chalk up the drinking to his youth, I also have an inkling that he does it in part to help him interact socially. And if so, that does worry me and if it continues then yes, he could be facing a problem with it down the road.
You brought up something that I think is very important. As the creative person I believe him to be, he needs time to let that flourish and grow and I don't think he's taking that time simply because, he doesn't have any.
His life is moving so fast now and if he doesn't take a break at the first good opportunity, then yes, his life could run away from him. My hope is that after he finishes with the Twilight films (not just filming them, but promoting them), that he'll take that break. And I'm guessing that'll be in about two years time. And when I say break, I mean, walking completely away from public life for about a year.
He needs to go away and get back into that creative process; his music, his writing. Just letting all of this settle, get some perspective on it, then come back and begin the next phase of his career. And I hope that those who love him will not discourage him from this; walking away at the height of his demand in the business. I hope they see him as more than just a commodity and this stepping away is necessary.
Bottom line? I think he's gonna be just fine. I got to thinking about it and feeling embarrassed by all of my hand wringing and it came to me. If ever this kid was gonna go off the rails, he would have done it sometime in the past 18 months when this tsunami of fame hit him right smack dab in the face. He would be doing it now. But he's not.
And I figure if anyone could get through the last year and a half that he's gone through with their sanity entact, they could pretty much get through anything. Also...
He's got his girl with him. The girl he'd waited for so long for. What they've got together and where it might one day go? Who knows? But for now, it is obviously bringing him a great deal of happiness.
He's gonna be okay and I'll try to stop worrying and just be a fan.
"This is a highly intelligent and extremely artistic creature and if he's not being challenged, then he is...bored!"
"I'm just speaking
from having been around these types of personalities all of my life."
"They feel 'deeper' I think because they are the such highly sensitive creatures and you have to have heightened sensitivity in order to create art."-Nikola
"He can be creative and sane enough even without the edgy stuff."
"One CAN be artistic, creative, intelligent, even brilliant, without any of that."
"Again, becasue there exist enough artistic people and brilliant people who do NOT need to abuse substances iin order to function, the need and use of substances is not guaranteed or necessary for all."
=solas
Okay, ladies, Solas led me to this thread. Whew! I've read it all, skimming a bit because you've both left my brain whirling -long day.
I'm going to enter the fray, just because. At some point, I'll get to the actual post. Soon, I hope, because I've got something else to say.
I'll try to address a bit of what you've both said, where you disagree.
Okay, Nik, the first quote above:
Yes, indeed Robert is a highly sensitive, intelligent and artistic creature, but I'm with Solas, he doesn't need either artificial stimulation or the role of a depraved killer to keep him from being bored.
Solas said so much more about why some artists seem to need to medicate in one way or another, but, bottom line is that the mere fact that one is a deep, sensitive, highly-intelligent, artist does not mean one would need artificial stimulation (unless there was a pre-existing medical condition like bipolar disorder, for example, and then the meds must be very specific to that condition).
First of all, I have not read this book. Nor 'American Psycho'. I have an aversion to absolute psychotic personalities; I think they are, believe it or not, boring. They are not worth my time. Why actors get accolades for playing them--Hopkins playing Lector--I'll never know.
What disturbs me is how fascinated the public is by them. To me that is a dangerous psychological morbidity. If Robert really is also thus enthralled by them, it is not due to sensitivity, nor more depth of soul, but rather less depth. There is no depth of soul in such personalities, only warning.
It's like God--however one wants to present the divine--is giving humans a big STOP sign. 'Here be dragons' and all that.
If some part of that kind of soul can be redeemed, let us explore that, as actors, and artists. But that evil itself is not interesting in itself.
To me, if I were Robert, or an actor, I would be interested in roles which were conflicted, complex humans trying to become better--like Tyler--and how they go about doing that. Or souls who have lost their way and are trying to find redemption. That kind of story is really challenging for any artist.
I've expressed myself on this here before. What Solas says about Rob not being able to write songs when he was doing Bel Ami but doing so when doing RM is indicative of the effect that amoral role was having on him. And for him to comment on it means that Robert knew what I'm saying. He noticed that divine warning sign.
And, if what I've read about this Steven Stelfox role here is correct, this would have a detrimental effect on Robert. It would poison him, at least during the time he had to be under its influence because he had to BECOME this character. Do not think it would not affect him. We all agree he is sensitive. Yup. His chart says so, his words say so, his interviews and demeanour in general all say so.
Therefore, what happens to that sensitive a soul--yes, of course he is an old soul--when he embraces evil, takes on its mantle while he plays the role of an evil person? Does he learn what evil is really like, from the inside out? That would invite real mental illness, if he were successful. How would he shake off that mantle? Switch it up and finally do Saturday Night Live or a romantic comedy? Or use alcohol or a narcotic to forget?
Please don't tell me that he'd want a role like that because THAT kind of role would make him an Oscar contender! That insults him, all that sensitivity and intelligence, that groundedness we've all talked about, all that about Robert should be insulted if we thought he chose roles on that basis.
The role of Tyler was enough, or should have been, to be an Oscar contender. It had depth, complexity and conflict and challenge. You don't have to become a maniac or a moron or someone with a disability to create an award-worthy role.
And how do we, the audience, judge whether an actor has nailed it when he plays a really evil person? How do we know? We see the evil in the tilt of the actor's head, the look in his eyes, the way he almost hits a terrified vistim, just to instill fear.
'Did you see how he played that barely leashed rage', we say, 'and that insane expression, he really caught it', We think we know. We think we know what it looks like. But it is all just play-acting. We only know if it has been part of our life-experience; if we have been, either the monster or his victim.
All right I haven't thought this out, but, seriously, how do we know? If we knew we would recognize evil when it passed us on the street.
And, as a corollary, how would the actor know he'd nailed it, unless he felt that depravity course through his blood? How would he know? And if he did nail it, and knew, what would he have learned, or taught us, about the human condition? What, of value, would the demonstration of evil be? Other than the big STOP sign. What?
Just fun, entertainment?
If so, then what would our Robert, our dear one--who would cringe if he heard me say that, because I have no right--what would he be doing with his life? This beautiful soul? What? Wasting his fucking time, is what.
Clearly he is made for better things. Yes, Nik, he needs to play against type. But, actually, here too, why? What type? It's the media which has typed him and it hasn't bothered to see what a variety of characters he's already played in his short career. He has no type.
And, if there were solid, substantive and multi-faceted roles out there, even if they were all romantic leads, they would each pose a challenge to him. Of course there aren't, for whatever industry reason.
But just to play a depraved man because he wants to break out of type is silly, Nik, just silly.
"And when he does, he will disappoint those fans who have PROJECTED onto him what they WANT and/or NEED him to be." =Nik.
I get your point, but the real fans are not the ones who will back him no matter how weird the role, the real fans--hate that term--will root for him to make good choices and will call him on it if they are poor ones. (Not that we have any right to 'call him' on anything at all.)You see the difference?
What I mean is, yeah, I love the gorgeousness and want to see it and I know he'll resist that but it won't always mean he'll make good acting choices while doing so. Maybe good career choices, if you count critical accolades or awards, but not necessarily good acting choices, or human ones. Do you see what I mean? I should illustrate but can't think right now.
When I first read this post I hoped it wasn't true. Why? Because it would sadden me if he thought he needed to play such a role to escape his type. Or even more if he was actually attracted to an exploration of that depravity.
Frankly, there so many illustrations of interesting and complex human lives out there which do not include evil that no actor would ever have to play it. Remember Me is a good case in point. Stories like that, showing humans struggling, neither all good nor all bad, trying, those types of stories are the most fascinating ones of all. The trick is getting well written ones, and then getting the moronic public into the theatre to watch. Because this public doesn't like only vampires, but terrorists, comic book heroes, and, yes, evil. Or shallow comedies.
The experience or RM taught us that.
Well I know neither of you are here now. I'll check back later to see what both of you think. The thread will really be buried then.
Oh, and I keep going back to Rob's statement--in Details--that acting could demean the human condition or elevate it. And if you're lucky you can elevate it.
That tells me that's his goal.
Oh, and, interestingly, both of you, Nik and Solas, believe in the reincarnation thing too. You had an interesting comments on it. I'll have to scroll and look. Hang on...
By the way, my novel is also about reincarnation. What are the odds?
Any hoohaa, I believe as you do, Nik, that we can bring some of the gifts from a previous life to the next, and maybe lingering obstacles too (hmm), and I believe, like Solas, that our job is to become better people each time, so that, next time around, we'll be 'higher' on the karmic spiral--although I don't believe in hierarchies--and I believe we go through the sun signs, and each is in that lifetime our best tool for our big karmic tasks that time around.
I don't believe we 'inherit' disabilities, nor that they are some karmic justice--getting what we deserve. I'm not sure what our limitations and disabilities are for.
I think we all have to try and live the best life in terms of morality--that golden rule you and I have talked about here before--and that our gifts, whether they be artistic, social or whatever, are also meant to help us become better people.
I don't want to sound like some prig and I wish I could be as humorous as you, Nik, but I'll have to struggle along with whatever my gifts are. And I'd better hurry up!
Hey, on another topic, I just commented on the RM DVD notice post to Goz. I hope you're in favour--not that there's a vote--I'm writing an article about RM in the context of good old Oscar and I hope she posts it.
AP-- this is weird-- I posted earlier this evening and just came back to see f any comments, but my posting was not here!
Anyway-- a few stories were in The Literary Journal; don't even know if it is around anymore. They were in about 10 years ago. Some were in some Jewsh publications. I can email you some if you give me an email address.
jesse--i agree with you on this in several points: Rob does not need to do evl or take on evil characters, to wear them. There are nteresting enough and challengng enough parts that do not require his descent into evil. IMNSHO, evil CAN penetrate, and it can do so either by leaving an actor so overwhelmed with the dark side that he becomes depressed, or by leaving its trace and ideas on his psyche. I already posted the words to one song I wrote, but since only the few of us are reading this thread now, I hope it doesn't offend if I give the lyrics again; they are apropos.
NO EXIT
Like the shards of a shattered mirror stabbing at his soul are the remnants of the role
the actor leaves behind,
And when at last he leaves his cage, he’s told all the world’s a stage
He has nowhere to go but out of his mind--There’s no exit!
There’s no way out for the soul that’s been smothered by the mask of his own skill.
No exit--for every part in life leaves its mark, its trace, its scar.
Like the shrapnel of a battlefield remaining in his head are old dialogues thought dead
the actor says no more,
Yet when he tries to speak his mind, his own words he cannot find.
He has nowhere to go but out of his mind--There’s no exit!
There’s no way out for the soul that’s been neatly tucked away by his own hands.
No exit--for every word in life leaves its mark, its trace, its scar.
Like the tapes of a bloodied bandage plastered to his heart is the character’s cast part
the actor leaves behind
And when he tries to find himself he flows blood of someone else.
He has nowhere to go but out of his mind--There’s no exit!
There’s no way out for the soul that’s been hidden by the strength of his own will.
No exit--for every role in life leaves its mark, its trace, its scar.
Like the loss of a long-term lover ripped as with a knife from the not-so-fiction life
the actor says,’ farewell’
And he leaves the stage and lights ‘til his body hosts another life, for
He has nowhere to go but back into his hell--There’s no exit!
There’s no way out for the soul in the attic’s graying portrait in his mind.
No exit--for every act in life leaves its mark, its trace, its scar.
Like a babe in a darkened nursery sobbing for the light, so abandoned in the night,
the soul cries out at last
He’ll rewrite the script they’ve dealt and he’ll recreate his ‘self’
He has a place to go--deep in the past. There’s a window,
A ray of light for the soul that’s been chained and cheated of his heritage.
A skylight--may every breath in life give you space and hope and stars.
I do think that a real actor playing real evil allows the evil to be n himself, and that leaves a trace. I like Rob's own words about it, and hope that he always seeks to elevate no matter which part he explores, and that he does not take on any role that would drown him in real evil.
I agree that acting can be therpeutic, and I have used it with children (obvioulsy not professional actors) fairly often. It seems to me, in order to tap and portray a character, an actor has to really not only understand the motivatons, but also the roots and the particular path that made that character make the particular choices he did. I know that some movie stars (as opposed to actors) just make the face and voice of what they think is called for or what the director requires, and these people are not going to be affected by the darker sides of a character, but the ones who really examine the dark corners and depths do not do so from a distance; they place themselves in the 'as if' world, 'as if' they are the character. Once that realm is reached, the actor is then thinking and moving like the character. When there is redemption for the character, even a possblity, it isn't so bad; my concern, and I thnk Jesse's concern, especially for Rob is if he were to take on a character that was so evil, so vile, that Rob would have to go to a dark place--or create one within his mind-- to really get the character. I often think of Heath Ledger, may he rest in peace, and how he described what happened to himself when he took on that character. A magnificent job, but what a cost! Bottom line is, I don't think Rob ever NEEDS to take on something like that, and although it could be he can shake most of the evil off an dout of himself, I do think that just thinking about such a character and thinking like him for the part, can leave a dark and dirty trace.
AP_- I have a facebook page (solas orr) I was going to possbly put some of my stuff on, but am not sure about copyright rules and how it works. If I find that it is safe, I might put some of my stories on there and you can read them there, if you wish.
AP--Hope you are still checking this thread! I am glad your acting friends have not been affected even by evil roles. i would love to talk to them about this in detail! And to see their films, how they portray and what they do. If they were not scarred, or even affected, whatever ccoping mechanism they use/used could be helfpul to others even not in the acting field. There are several reasons for my interest: biologically whatever we see, read, hear, experience thru our senses mades 'tracks' in the brain, pathways of neurons and new connections. The more modalities and senses involved in the expereince, the deeper the tracks and pathways and the more the connections. So an actor who just reads a part, like one who gives his voice to a cartoon, involves 1 main modality, speaking, plus, if he is processing mentally what he is reading, there is formed another path, or deepens the first (as comprehension of the written word internalizes it). Even when only one pathway--just fleetingly seeing something without consciously processing it, it can come up in our dreams and other subconscious flows; all the moreso something experienced more than fleetingly! But an actor who is physically involved in a part, playng the role, involves his mental processes (he HAS to process mentally in order to act the part, not just say the lines), hearing, speaking, moving-- his whole body is involved in the experience of the character and part every minute of every day he is performing/acting out that role. So the character and role are entering his system and making pathways and connections in his brain through several modalities and via several senses. Hence, deeper more permanent tracks and pathways which logically would stay with the actor even after the role is left behind. So if your acting friends are really unchanged by a role, esp an evil role, whatever they do to prevent the change, the pathways, would be helpful to people even in other fields who are being affected negatively, sometimes with great harm, by their line of work and accompanyng experiences. I know and love someone who is involved in undercover political owrk, and after a few months of living a false identity, even when he is done with that mission, I can see the affects it has on him; they never totally leave. CHildren also often act to fit in, to avoid punishment; they act out roles of a different character, one that would be more acceptable. And they often lose their real sense of self in the process, or at least take on attributes that were not really theirs, negative attributes of the group they wish to infiltrate/belong to. So knowing whch mechanisms your actor friends use to avoid beng affected, would be helpful, and certainly interesting to observe and discuss!
Um…that’s a heady proposition…I don’t think they’d be up for it. Most actors I know won’t really talk about their internal ‘process’ – especially those who prefer it to be more intuitive or spontaneous. Funny, because they'll talk about the character/situation ad nauseum. lol I don’t think playing an ‘evil’ character is really fundamentally different from playing an extremely heroic one, except they are often better developed. Sometimes the latter can be harder to let go of. The ‘as if’ is exactly that – you can’t be become another person – of course, that’s psychosis – you can only act ‘as if’ and you can only bring what you have already inside you, combined with research, your response to the other actors and other unknown stimuli. If it’s truthful – it’s you, but only a portion – tailored and sculpted to fit the demands of the character. However, it may be something that you would never do in real life. That’s part of the attraction. And actors don’t play an ‘evil’ character as ‘evil.’ As Karl Malden said: “You don’t play a heavy. You play someone who acts as a heavy under certain circumstances.” I don’t know how to generalize very well as every actor is different, as every person is different, in how they approach a role. I can only suggest that you try acting yourself – there are a lot of classes available. Something one has to do, more than talk about…;)
AP__ interesting you should say that, even in jest! I formed most of my ideas about acting from own experience. I never had a desire to be an actress, or even take part in school plays, etc, although I was always picked for any solos in any musical performances. But one year, the drama society was putting on a play and apparently one of the main characters reminded everyone so much of myself, that they begged me to take on the part--when I said I had no acting skills, they said I would be 'typecast' and so not to worry. After getting over the obstacle of language misudnerstanding (they called themselves thespians, I had heard the term lesbian once and was disgusted that they wanted me to join such a group!)and after overcoming the distress of being in a shakespeare play when he was the creator of one of the more vile pictures, terms, and 'reward' of jews in literature, I took on the part, and actually won the drama award that year, and was written about in the local papers, etc. Knowing that I really did not know how to act, I decided then that a good 'actor' to give a believable performance either had to be typecast, or had to create within himself the aspects of the character so much that it was if he WAS typecast. Added to that was what I read about Daniel dayLwis, one of my favourite actors of all time, how he experienced the character by living as that character as much as possble.
But I also know my own character, and I could not act believably what I am really not, or am really against. You know I was raised with, and live in a community with very strict religious lifestyle, but I myself am not as 'rightwing' and narrow as the people in the community, and I have to act every day--dress their dress, walk their walk, etc, when in public. I can do this because it was a part of me, and I am familiar with it, and I don't tthink it is bad, it is just not exactly what I believe, although I am sincerely spiritual and religiously observant, just not the usual way in many instances of my life. And I do this because 1- it is where my paycheck such as it is comes from, and 2-there are benefits socially, even practically (like the needs for a religously observant life-- the food, the ritual baths, etc), by being in the community. But if it comes to things I really find repulsive, reprehensible, I will not fake agreement with that, even at the expense of my being ostracized, fired, kicked out. I am a VERY intense person, and intensely not into games and lying, although I have learned tact over time which softens some of the straightforward intense honesty. So, I cannot see myself taking on a role I could not BE, even just for a play or movie. I know many Jews n Europe lived as nonjews, and some even wore naz uniforms (have you seen Europa Europa?), but I don't think I could do that--i probably would have been murdered. And I have spoken wtih survivors who had to live like that, wondering how they could be whole, good people, after living like that. And the ones that survived the best, that were able to live whole lives after that, were the ones who were able to see that world as an illusion, tuck away their selves. And then they had to find themselves after it ws all over. And these were people who for the most part did not do anythng evil, just lived as if they were.
Thanks, and I enjoyed the story about the actor who 'played' a thug mostly by his looks and looking unhappy!
AP and Solas...
I've been enjoying your exchange and really liked your poem, Solas.
You've gotten into pretty esoteric ground. Did Nik shy away from this fray? Maybe we've all had our say.
AP, I'm not sure what your industry connection is--obvioiusly there is one--but I'm always interested in your knowledge about it.
My son's career choice had been acting; it was his passion and he went to an arts high school. He played a villain in gr. 12, a character who was the furthest thing from my son's character, and everyone was blown away by his performance.
Now, given what we've been talking about here about roles for Rob and how they might affect him, I wish I could ask my son questions. At the time, I was just a Mom, happy for his accolades.
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